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 Post subject: Nymphet Controversy: Seven Seas' Response
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:38 am 
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[quote]I wanted to address the controversy related to our upcoming release of NYMPHET.

There have been several heated online debates about this title, mainly about whether or not it is suitable to be released in the US. Many fans are eagerly awaiting its release and we have received a large number of emails to attest to this fact, while others on various forums find the content highly objectionable and are opposed to its release.

Specifically, those who are speaking out against NYMPHET seem to be disturbed by the relationship between two characters in the story, namely an elementary school student and her adult teacher. Most people have not yet read NYMPHET, since we haven’t even published it yet, so I would like to clarify an important point: NYMPHET is a story about a mischievous young girl who tries to sexually entrap her teacher. The important context here is that the girl’s advances on her teacher are never reciprocated by him; her teacher is horrified by her actions, and his romantic interest is in fact another adult teacher. The comedy arises out of this young girl saying and doing improper things (much like Crayon Shin-Chan, which is currently being aired on Cartoon Network) and seeing her teacher squirm with discomfort and shock while he struggles to keep his composure, at the same time trying not to make a fool of himself in front of the woman he loves.

In Japan, NYMPHET is a highly popular and successful manga written and drawn by a female creator for an older teen male audience. It is published in Futubasha’s weekly seinen magazine COMIC HIGH. It is not considered pornographic by any means, and Japanese would be shocked to hear this sort of accusation about what they consider to be a mainstream property. In fact, it is so mainstream that it has been turned into an anime program which will be broadcast on Japanese TV starting this July. My personal stance on this title is, if it’s good enough for the Japanese, then it’s good enough for us. I had the opportunity to live in Japan for six years, and so I understand and appreciate their cultural nuances and wacky and often bizarre sense of humor. Based on the angry debates that I have seen online, however, there are people who do not appreciate this sort of material, and while it may be appropriate in Japan, they feel that it is inappropriate for our culture.

Although I do not agree with that point of view, I realize that this issue must be addressed, instead of ignored. As a policy, we at Seven Seas do not believe in altering or “censoringâ€

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Last edited by Adam Arnold on Thu May 31, 2007 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:15 am 
The way I see it, if you don't like it, don't buy it or read it. If more people lived that way instead of pushing their up-tight beleifs on others this country would be better off and the open minded people would not have to be deprived of new ideas and concepts.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:09 am 
Its a freedom of press issue. As a publishing company, you have the right to publish what ever you feel. Now the consumer has the right to support the company or not, when they don't it makes you rethink your actions. Now its just like with anyother book that gets published with controversy, you never truly know how it is going to be taken till it goes on the shevles for sell. History would point to this being a good thing, any press is good press. People have a natural ceriosity for things like this, you hear a heated debate on a topic, you are compelled to findout more, you investigate topic, and end up with it either way.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:14 pm 
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I'm just happy to hear this. :happyhappy:


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:44 pm 
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*ahem* Not to sound like a dick on behalf of the modstaff - but thank you for noting this is the United States. What's all an good in Japan ain't the same as here, and you needed to note that. Given fan-translations of this series, I have to say a fully unedited version would likely be pushing the bill of what you can morally throw out in this country.

The fact you're taking a step back to allow for filtering and PR departments to look into this title is probably a wise idea, because I could see major criticism of the title and possible manga-"society" as a whole coming from this thing's release in the US.
In short, you're being smart.

On the flip side - you people have no balls whatsoever to be swayed so simply by fans' negative responses on a title you have some faith in. =C


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:40 pm 
How long will this content awareness thing last? Is there the possibility that this might lead to the series' being canceled outright? I hope not, but I have a really bad feeling about this.


Last edited by B173 M3 on Fri May 25, 2007 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:56 pm 
Zerodaimu wrote:
The fact you're taking a step back to allow for filtering and PR departments to look into this title is probably a wise idea, because I could see major criticism of the title and possible manga-"society" as a whole coming from this thing's release in the US.
In short, you're being smart.


Excuse me, have you actually SEEN some of the stuff that has come out in the US before?

Battle Royale: Incest, 9th grade sex, massive violence.
Berserk: ALOT of stuff which I can't remember right off hand...
Lost Girls(non-manga) Erotic comic by Alan Moore, contains EXPLICIT underage sex involving storybook characters, that caused only mild controversy.

KnJ is NOT NEARLY as explicit as any of the above, and it is being shrinkwrapped, like the titles above, so I don't think you should worry too much about it.

People base everything on one scanlated page. THATS not a very good indicator. If any controversy of something would come from this title, why hasn't it come for Berserk? or BR?

Actually, I think the controversy mainly arose after an article about SS in Publishers Weekly, which Identified KnJ as a "Lolicon" title. which caused people to assume the worst. they either think it's more graphic that it is, or are unaware of other stuff that has been released without causing any major problems.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:25 pm 
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I think Necro V said it best, if people don't like it they won't read it and they should not be the ones telling the rest of us what we can and cannot see nor how we can see it, in other words putting their moral values on our harmless entertainment.

On that note there was a funny anime preview I think applies. The announcer said they would remove everything that would offend anyone and had a blank screen, he then said they would remove everything that would offend most people and they still had a blank screen. In the end he said they would just remove the parts that would get them sued and they actually had a preview to show. The point of course is that you can't please everyone and it's not worth trying because even if you do nothing you will offend someone in some manner.

Also I think anyone whose views can be so easily influenced by an article on a manga that they themselves have not even given a chance, should not be given priority in what is and is not in the manga. They should be educated about the manga and allowed to decide for themselves if they want to read it, but not be allowed to influence the content.

Censoring nothing while letting everyone decide for themselves is the best option in my opinion.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Lordshade wrote:
Zerodaimu wrote:
The fact you're taking a step back to allow for filtering and PR departments to look into this title is probably a wise idea, because I could see major criticism of the title and possible manga-"society" as a whole coming from this thing's release in the US.
In short, you're being smart.


Excuse me, have you actually SEEN some of the stuff that has come out in the US before?

Battle Royale: Incest, 9th grade sex, massive violence.
Berserk: ALOT of stuff which I can't remember right off hand...
Lost Girls(non-manga) Erotic comic by Alan Moore, contains EXPLICIT underage sex involving storybook characters, that caused only mild controversy.

Yes, I have, and none of those happen to hit home as much as seeming pedophilia, of course. Sex between children and children, incest, and all the stuff is negative, but please think of the context here – third grade pairing with and adult is something that hits home to the American public’s biggest fears, particularly with the sex offender scare due to the internet and the Michael Jackson trial. Please think next time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Necro V wrote:
The way I see it, if you don't like it, don't buy it or read it. If more people lived that way instead of pushing their up-tight beleifs on others this country would be better off and the open minded people would not have to be deprived of new ideas and concepts.


Ryokosha wrote:
I think Necro V said it best, if people don't like it they won't read it and they should not be the ones telling the rest of us what we can and cannot see nor how we can see it, in other words putting their moral values on our harmless entertainment.

Also I think anyone whose views can be so easily influenced by an article on a manga that they themselves have not even given a chance, should not be given priority in what is and is not in the manga. They should be educated about the manga and allowed to decide for themselves if they want to read it, but not be allowed to influence the content.

Censoring nothing while letting everyone decide for themselves is the best option in my opinion.


I read these posts, and I wondered to myself if the people making them would be expressing such outrage if, instead of a manga involving a third grade girl and her adult teacher, the book under fire was something like one of David Irving's fantasies.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:51 pm 
Zerodaimu wrote:
Lordshade wrote:
Zerodaimu wrote:
The fact you're taking a step back to allow for filtering and PR departments to look into this title is probably a wise idea, because I could see major criticism of the title and possible manga-"society" as a whole coming from this thing's release in the US.
In short, you're being smart.


Excuse me, have you actually SEEN some of the stuff that has come out in the US before?

Battle Royale: Incest, 9th grade sex, massive violence.
Berserk: ALOT of stuff which I can't remember right off hand...
Lost Girls(non-manga) Erotic comic by Alan Moore, contains EXPLICIT underage sex involving storybook characters, that caused only mild controversy.

Yes, I have, and none of those happen to hit home as much as seeming pedophilia, of course. Sex between children and children, incest, and all the stuff is negative, but please think of the context here – third grade pairing with and adult is something that hits home to the American public’s biggest fears, particularly with the sex offender scare due to the internet and the Michael Jackson trial. Please think next time.


Well, this isn't about a "pairing" of such. Rin only teases her teacher, and he never comes CLOSE to accepting ANY of her "attacks". While it might give that impression if you haven't really read any of it, there relationship is really just about a concerned teacher and a precocious and playful student.

It actually seems like shes not really in to bed him, really. she just wants to tease and get attention.

Oh, and the sex offender scare is mostly the result of a sensationalist media blowing everything out of proportion, not due to the internet or MJ. Also, it doesn't really apply here because the "predator" role is actually reversed, Rin is actually sexually harassing HIM.

The only thing I can really think would bother people is the fanservice, and many titles have already had fanservice of characters even younger than Rin sometimes (Sarah McDougal of Love Hina comes to mind), it just wasn't really focused on.

Also, I recall the incestuous BR sex scene I was talking about was between a father and daughter..

In the end, I think it might cause some minor controversy, but not enough to make major news.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:59 pm 
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Lordshade, allow me to be frank - it doesn't matter what the content of the book is when it's show to public inquiry, it matters what the overall shape and feel is. And the reason this more noteworthy is because SSE is a growing company - it's news, and due to it's success with Boogiepop and other series it's big news and might make more headline than a random one-of-hundreds title from any other publishing company.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:18 pm 
Damn that sucks i hate when other people hate something and they try to ban it who gives a damn if you don't like it don't think about it and don't buy it and let people who like it buy the book.Does this mean seven seas is never going to release it or they will but edited down?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:29 pm 
detective392 wrote:
Damn that sucks i hate when other people hate something and they try to ban it who gives a damn if you don't like it don't think about it and don't buy it and let people who like it buy the book.Does this mean seven seas is never going to release it or they will but edited down?


No, Read the response top post. He said they ARE going to release it, only that it will be delayed. Also, they CLEARLY stated that they are releasing this uncensored.

The thing between me and Zerodaimu were just opinions and not reflective of there plans. I have nothing to do with SSE, and as far as I know, Zerodaimu just volunteer's to moderate some off-topic threads. So don't take anything either of us say about it as fact.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:38 pm 
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Actually I'm by offer of Adam, who has command over the forum, so in a way I was hired. However, I don't speak for the company at all.


[NOTE: Zero was asked to be a moderator and keep order on the forum much like Twilight Bandit and the other mods. This is a volunteer position and his opinions in this thread are his own. -AA]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:18 pm 
I really hope the release date will come soon so I can order it. I'm just fed up with Viz's and Tokyopop's cowardice in translating/localizing their manga titles that I'd rather rely on someone else.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:49 pm 
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While I guess I can understand some people's reactions, I am just not wired to accept their arguments. It's just a bunch of drawings! I just don't get the controversy. :R

Anyway, while I am yet again disappointed at the delay, I think Seven Seas' strategy for dealing with this is perfect. While I'm almost certain at least a few stores will say "um, we changed our minds" overall I think this dialogue will lead to a fair number releasing it without a problem. Also, anything which generates more talk between Seven Seas and the chains can't help but prove useful. Mainly, I think this is a good move because it avoids the CENSORED route while taking into account that some might not want to deal with the controversy.

Frankly, I think this is the smartest move yet for a manga company. Bravo!

I just wish people would learn to relax a little. I mean, crap, half the people going nuts over this title are the same ones you normally see spouting off about Free Speech and Tolerance.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:21 pm 
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Speaking only for myself, but I would express such outrage no matter what was being censored.

My opinion of those that allow another person with limited knowledge, an article with a limited view, or a few random images of something to sway their opinion on any topic is low enough; my feelings of those that allow such things to sway their opinion and then in turn try to force that opinion based on no personal knowledge of said topic upon others is that of massive dislike toward their seemingly easily influenced thinking.

I truly believe that freedom of speech exists to protect the speech we hate not the speech we love, and would defend anything against censorship and the cry to have it censored no matter my personal opinion on the subject.

What of yourself Lord Styphon, do you have such beliefs against censorship?

For the record, I too am happy again of the choice to give people more time to decide for themselves but am also saddened by the delay.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:44 pm 
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I personally find the "if you don't like it, don't read it" mentality to be repulsive and not suitable for a major company such as SSE. To that end I am glad the likes of yourself, Ryokosha, do not run their PR department.
Because that's basically saying you're going to spend the money to print something you know a good faction, enough to say that anyway, is going to be iffy towards or outright dislike. As such, you're knowingly cutting into company profits and putting up a red flag for people to attack on the subject.

Which is why I'm rather content with this ball-less choice of SSE.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:54 pm 
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But the question becomes, is the vocal majority the real majority? Often I've found the vocal majority is in fact the minority, they just yell the loudest shouting out such trite phrases as "do what's best for the nation" .... "think of the children"... which often gets companies to cower in fear. I for one am glad that Seven Seas has not given in to such fears as of yet at least.

So you honestly feel it is in all people's best interest to restrict freedom of speech for something yourself do not beleive in, in turn forcing such an opinion on a company and thus controlling what others who do not share your opinion can and cannot read?

It is thoughts such as that which truly scare me, since those voicing them (and I am hoping you are not one of these people) very often truly believe restricting freedom of the press and speech serves the publics best interest rather then just their own moral beliefs.

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