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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:57 pm 
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I keep thinking the question about this title is over. I'm just hope that Seven Seas will keep putting new books out. I still wish to read many of them :sweat: :happyhappy:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:23 pm 
Lord Styphon wrote:
I think what had "failed at life" was the mindset that says that the proper response to Seven Seas deciding to not to release this title was a boycott with the specific intent (or at least hope) of driving the company out of business.

If a manga, any manga, is that important to you, perhaps a careful evaluation of your priorities in life is in order.


That makes some sense though it was very poorly communicated. Besides, the primary purpose of a boycott is to convince a company to change its behavior. Killing it is usually counterproductive.

But its not like a boycott consumes one's life (unless one is boycotting Purina, General Electric, or Westinghouse -- in which case you might as well go live in a cave and eat crickets). Example: I don't purchase gas from Chevron/Exxon, even though it is sometimes cheaper. Why? They're biggest bit of unpleasantness from a global perspective. I try to buy from the least unpleasant competitor. I just don't want to grease their wheels. I buy pure wind power for my electricity, it costs about 5% more but added to everyone else it helps drive the price down (it was 10% more a few years ago). Less need for coal plants.
Each decision takes about two seconds and in aggregate has an impact on companies or entities that don't play nicely.

I have no desire to drive SevenSeas out of business. In the big picture, they're doing pretty good stuff. Unfortunately, KnJ was one of the only two current titles they have that I had any interest in. So it isn't that I'm boycotting them... they just have little I'm interested in buying now.


Aye... the only remaining question about KnJ is will SevenSeas sit on the license? Release it? Sell it? I hope they release it (or sell it to someone who can get it to market).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:44 pm 
Can't you angry nerds just find some other comic about naked children to jerk off to?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:48 pm 
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crankydragon wrote:
Zerodaimu wrote:
soheifox wrote:
And if enough loons like me decide the same thing? They go out of business. so yes.. a boycott actually IS the best way to voice your opinion. It's the _only_ way.

Lol... You fail at life.

Boycotts are "fail at life"????

Lolz arrogance and drama proving my point.

Schrutiny wrote:
Can't you angry nerds just find some other comic about naked children to jerk off to?

Lolz hatred.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:19 pm 
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Corsair
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Location: A paradise where Funimation saves Geneon tiles and ADV titles.
crankydragon wrote:
I have no desire to drive SevenSeas out of business. In the big picture, they're doing pretty good stuff.
This is my view of the situation as well. I'm not happy with Seven Seas' decision and, while I now have a better understanding of why they made it, I still disagree with it, but a boycott would be kind of pointless. If I thought it would make them publish, maybe I'd have a different opinion, but Seven Seas is still doing a fair amount of good work at this time.

They've got quite a few titles coming up I want besides the now cancelled Nymphet.

crankydragon wrote:
Aye... the only remaining question about KnJ is will SevenSeas sit on the license? Release it? Sell it? I hope they release it (or sell it to someone who can get it to market).
I'd just like for someone to release this one for some English speaking market so I can buy it and understand it. (Although at this point it looks like this will be one more reason to learn Japanese.) :R

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:42 pm 
Zerodaimu wrote:
crankydragon wrote:
Zerodaimu wrote:
soheifox wrote:
And if enough loons like me decide the same thing? They go out of business. so yes.. a boycott actually IS the best way to voice your opinion. It's the _only_ way.

Lol... You fail at life.

Boycotts are "fail at life"????

Lolz arrogance and drama proving my point.

Schrutiny wrote:
Can't you angry nerds just find some other comic about naked children to jerk off to?

Lolz hatred.


Lolz you fail at discussion? Infantile negation and labeling that proves nothing. I'll spend my energy on other people :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:46 pm 
Schrutiny wrote:
Can't you angry nerds just find some other comic about naked children to jerk off to?

HAHA OKAY

Quote:
Also, i've been told this is the turning point when Nymphet decides she really likes her teacher, as opposed to wanting to jerk him around. How/why does this change happen? How does she act differently towards him afterwards?


Her (Rin, the nymphet in question) previous teacher suffered a breakdown and lost it at one of her friends (yelled and verbally abused her) then quits. The friend then stopped coming to school, so Rin decides to get the new teachers fired, in Japan, the easiest way to do this is implicate a sexual scandel between a teacher and a pupil. At one point she drops her panties to her knees (note that there is no nudity AT ALL) and says "I wonder what would happen if I screamed help right now?" however one of her friends comes into the classroom and she puts them back on without much incedent or fuss.

The new teacher (Aoki), who's the second lead roll in Nymphet, suceeds in bringing Rin's friend back to class. He also feeds a cat Rin and her friends found in the school ground. Rin is worried that because he's an adult, he'll have the cat taken off school property etc. He doesn't and moreover, when the cat climbs under a tree, Rin goes up to save it, however she falls out the tree and throws himself under her to save her from injury. The cat also ends up staying at the school.

I think its more or less at this point where her desire to see him fired becomes a crush.

Its after this point that the infamouse caligraphy scene is. Where Aoki is showing the kids how to use ink brushes for writing. Having made a good enough job of writing her name, Rin presents Aoki with the caligraphy explaining that "I hope you [removed]". Aoki rips it up and asks Rin what she was thinking. She responds by telling him that she was told she can write anything she wants and then asks "Or would you prefer that I try dipping your brush for the first time instead." Aoki blushes in a comical way, the the gag is forgotten about. I don't fully understand it, but I'm a bit dense.

At several points, Aoki clearly shows no interest in Rin. For example at one point she says she's deliberatly showing Aoki her panties, where upon he matter-of-factly hits her on the head with a folder saying if she understands what such and action would mean, then theres every more reason NOT to be doing it.

Another story deals with one of Rin's friends being something of an...early developer. Aoki decides to have Rin try to convince her friend to buy a bra (since you can't have a male teacher telling his 8-year old student to buy them) Rin agrees on the condition that Aoki gives her a really tight hug, Aoki responds by flicking her on the forehead and telling her not to tease her elders. The panel following that shows what looks like Rin wiping her eyes and saying "...but I wasn't teasing".

Aoki, the teacher, goes into a job hoping to be a "big brother" figure to his students. This is a point in the relationship as well. At one point he is told not to focus his attentions too much one pupil, so when he starts talking to his other students more, Rin takes it quite hard and begins to think that Aoki doesn't like her anymore. She fakes a sprained ankle in order to get Aoki to carry her home where she asks him if he still likes her and if she is a bad girl, even implying that she drove her previous homeroom teacher to resign.

Aoki says he does like her because "she is a cute student in his class" and says that he does like her. However he also realises that because she's an elementary school student that it doesn't mean anything, however he still feels awkward about saying it.

Theres also a thing about one of Rin's friends having probably more-than-a-friend feelings about Rin, and how Aoki is getting all Rin's attention, but its not explored much.

That pretty much sums up all the main events of what would have been in the SS book. Albeit slightly out of order.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:55 pm 
Chibi Flash, thank you, that is exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate the time you took to answer me.

It seems to me that the plot could very well make many folks uncomfortable, but that all accusations of pornography of pedophilia are totally invented. Is that an accurate conclusion?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:07 pm 
Matt... damn he beat me to it (I was writing one up). Chibi's descriptions are nice summaries of the various story arcs.

In later stories, we find out about Rin's caregiver (as does Aoki). That is a rather complicated story of good motives but her step-dad also terribly misses Rin's mom and Rin reminds him of her. So its complicated for him.
Aoki is suspicious of him given Rin's behavior.

Aoki also is trying to strike up a relationship with a fellow teacher (who looks rather like a plumpish grown up Rin). Rin flips between jealousy of the teacher (some dark moments there) and bonding to her somewhat herself.

We also get Rin's backstory of her birth and the later death of her mother and how that traumatized Rin.

A lot of this doesn't sound comedic, does it? People calling it a comedy weren't paying a lot of attention. Its more slice-of-life drama with bursts of comedy to keep it from being too depressing.

And to answer you, yes about the accusations. Basically this series got tarred and feathered without any real justification. Its almost like a litmus test for a person's own little mind-goblins like the things many other ultra-righteous folk rail about.

I enjoy reading your blog, good source of thought and information.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Bilge Rat
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Stop with the story discussion! It's only making me want it more! :cry:

On a side note, While I was in a couple of bookstores (B+N and Hastings) I noticed that there weren't many SS titles on the shelves. Only the ones that were have been there for weeks. Your thoughts?


I was really hoping any controversial debates would have blown over like it did with the anime Kite (adult version) or the more recent live-action movie Hard Candy. Can't always win I guess. :shruuug:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:04 pm 
Seven Seas releases a lot less than other publishers, I believe, and slower as well. A fair number of series actually on the shelf are made by them, so it takes longer. Don't worry about it; more is coming. Just check once a month, a little after the release day.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:56 pm 
lolicon is *not* necessarily pedophilia
although one meaning of the japanese word lolicon is pedophilia/pedophile (short for lolita complex), not only in the west but also in japan it carries the second meaning of the whole field in the otaku culture about underage characters and related subjects that would be considered sensitive.

I agree that it was extremely painfully irresponsible to license a title before doing enough research to be sure it was appropriate for the company.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:37 am 
59cobalt wrote:
DawnBandit wrote:
Despite being "gutless" as you call them, they still deliver quality manga, and despite you not getting the titles you so eagerly want.

Besides, all those people babbling about "gutless" now have the chance to start their own business, aquire the soon-to-be-available-again license, and publish it on their own. Come on, show the guts you demand from others so vigorously.

cu
59cobalt


I'll buy the license! (if its cheap enough. serious)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:43 am 
Actually even the term "lolita complex" is not equivalent to pedophila in the strict psychological sense.
Pedophilia (finds pre-pubescent children less than 11 sexually appealing)
Lolita complex (targets young women, typically 11-14 as sexually appealing)
Some minor overlap but the big problem is that lay people misuse or are sloppy with both terms.
Having pedophillic tendencies does not equal "child molester" unless one executes on that. Find "lolitas" attractive (11-14) is as often a wave of nostalgia for "first love" as it is an attraction for actual women of that age.
The downside of some people who have those attributes is that they like the sense of control over the situation. Some speculate that as women in Japan assert themselves and become more independent --- some men are looking to younger and younger women to retain that feeling of control.

Of course, those real world concerns are completely irrelevant to Kodomo no Jikan ... where the young girl has a crush on her teacher (cue Police/Sting song) and that it is a work of fiction.

However, most of the young girls in anime/manga stories I come across are actually quite assertive and independent, sometimes quite powerful .... perhaps there's a message there to the Japanese men who think they can escape the evolution of women in Japan :)

Finally, reading stories about characters who have a variety of psychological tendencies doesn't *make* one become anything...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:42 am 
crankydragon has put my thoughts into words better than I could. And I don't think you people crying "boycott!" are thinking this through. From a business standpoint, canceling Nymphet makes complete sense, and while I'm irritated at some of the disparaging comments the president made about the manga, its not something worth boycotting the company over.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:19 am 
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Inquisidor General de los Siete Mares
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You seem to be forgetting that Loli is Serious Business.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:59 am 
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Bilge Rat
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After some reflection of my own today, I realized I'm not as disappointed with the company's decision as a consumer but as an artist. After I saw that they had Nymphet I stopped worrying so much about my own content and sent in a submission. But after hearing about this cancellation, I'm not sure I want to submit anything again. :R

I personally think the name change brought it a lot of negative attention right from the start. If you (marketing/localizers) would have just shortened it to Kodokan like the fans did (like Tokyopop shortened Kodomo No Omocha to Kodocha for US) not many people other than the fans, or passerby who thought the cover was cute, would have even paid much attention.

...Anyways, what ever happened to the whole original artist was shocked to hear that such a mainstream story (in Japan) could cause such offense to Americans?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:05 am 
...Maybe not so much. Negima's got a kid who's technically only 9 in nude scenes all the time, yet there have been no more complaints than the usual.

...Okay, okay, the kid IS male, so it's Shota and not Loli, but you get my point. ^^; Lolita-type characters appear very regularly in anime and manga... there just seemed to be an outcry this time.

I have read worse than Nymphet. One series involved a man who rescued a little girl from a slave market of some sort, and ended up using her as a sex toy and a tool. I still wasn't that bothered, but I think a story like that is much, much worse than anything Nymphet has portrayed, even if the artist was careful to never, ever be explicit.

I feel sorry that Nymphet has been dropped (as I would for any series; I'd like as much as possible translated to English), but to those who are truly upset... we understand. It isn't fair that people have over-reacted and we suffer because of it; we probably all thought that the anime and manga community had been around long enough to not be so bothered. I mean, from the descriptions earlier, this sounded like an interesting series, one I'd probably buy.

To the boycotters... it isn't really worth it. Seven Seas is a good company, but they are a company, and do have to think about how what they publish will affect their approval rating. Perhaps they will be willing to sell the liscense... even if just to a fan group that would pay money for the liscense so they could translate Nymphet themselves and release it, online or offline. If you want to read the series that badly, why not try and make some change yourself, instead of just complaining? ^^ You'll probably get farther!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:41 am 
Wakarimasen001 wrote:
After some reflection of my own today, I realized I'm not as disappointed with the company's decision as a consumer but as an artist. After I saw that they had Nymphet I stopped worrying so much about my own content and sent in a submission. But after hearing about this cancellation, I'm not sure I want to submit anything again. :R

I personally think the name change brought it a lot of negative attention right from the start. If you (marketing/localizers) would have just shortened it to Kodokan like the fans did (like Tokyopop shortened Kodomo No Omocha to Kodocha for US) not many people other than the fans, or passerby who thought the cover was cute, would have even paid much attention.

...Anyways, what ever happened to the whole original artist was shocked to hear that such a mainstream story (in Japan) could cause such offense to Americans?


*nitpick "The nickname for this title is Kojikan, not Kodakan...

...and I question if it is exactly "mainstream", it's defiantly popular, but one of the main reasons it's sold so well was due to causing some minor controversy in Japan. Mainly with it's advertising, Throwing around terms like "forbidden love" and "mazegaki (precocious brat) child that acts like an adult" (a rather dirty minded one, though).

In the end, it's not exactly underground, but not exactly "Mainstream" either...

I still think it's a good story, though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:48 am 
I was discussing this issue with the family and my son reminded me of the movie "Taxi Driver" ... one of the primary characters was a 12 year-old prostitute (played by a very young Jodie Foster). This is a 20th C. film classic. It was rated R but no one tried to shut it down (there was some nervous churchlady handfluttering but it was as much over the psychology of the violence the lead character (played by DeNiro) projected as anything else). It was made in 1976... 31 years ago.

Note: Interestingly, Jodie Foster was actually 13 at the time she played the role. Outstanding acting (one of my wife's favorite actresses).


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